2 weeks ago
The pursuing is simply a transcript of an question and reply pinch University of Chicago professor Robert Paper that aired connected April 28, 2024.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And we're joined now by nan founding head of nan Chicago Project connected Security and Threats, University of Chicago Professor Robert Pape, who has caller findings connected nan assemblage protests complete nan Israel-Hamas war. Welcome backmost to nan program. I understand you've been surveying astir 5,000 students, 600 colleges and universities, betwixt December and January. Because this stretches backmost to correct aft October 7. What did you study astir what's happening?
ROBERT PAPE: The large point we learned is that nan feelings of fearfulness connected assemblage campuses are much wide and much aggravated than we person known. Overall, 56% of Jewish students study emotion successful individual danger. Close behind, 52% of Muslim students study emotion successful individual danger. And 16% of each students who are not Jewish and not Muslim, this is 2 to 3 cardinal assemblage students, besides study emotion successful individual danger. We besides inquire them successful textboxes, why, and complete 1,000 students told america why. And what they're reporting, Margaret, is not TikTok. What they are reporting is, watching acts of beingness unit and intimidation correct successful beforehand of them. Jewish students are seeing Jewish buildings attacked. Muslim students are seeing group antagonistic back- antagonistic onslaught against Muslims. The students that are not Jewish and not Muslim, they're conscionable seeing everybody getting, you know, attacked. Also, protestation chants are playing a role. So what we're seeing successful wide is that this is not fading away. This is simply a nonstop usability of nan escalation successful nan Middle Eastern conflict complete there. And this is having spillover effects connected our campuses, and of course, successful immoderate cities.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, nan Speaker of nan House, Mike Johnson, went up to Columbia University this week. You had 4 Democratic lawmakers, each Jewish, who went, they said successful solidarity pinch Jewish students there, and threatened to withhold national funding. Is that benignant of governmental engagement helpful, aliases is it putting substance connected nan fire?
ROBERT PAPE: It is putting substance connected nan fire, because it's truthful one-sided. If Speaker Johnson had gone together pinch Hakeem Jeffries pinch an existent scheme to bring calm, and we'll talk astir what that mightiness look like, past this is simply a different story. But by come- making it a surprise, by making threats, you know, if you don't do X, we will occurrence Y and we're going to do X, and this is each a surprise, this is really not adjuvant for crowd power astatine all. So, I besides study nan existent convulsive portion of this. And nan number 1 point erstwhile you person protests that are building, is don't do a surprise. In Portland during nan George Floyd protests, you mightiness retrieve DHS amazed Portland, that escalated things. This is simply a very bad idea. So you request to person a much thoughtful attack to calming tensions that spell beyond crowd control, and that are not simply, 1 broadside is right, everybody other is wrong. And we're going to hammer it done until we win.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So who was that first statement of action coming from? Is it assemblage presidents? Or are you talking astir rule enforcement?
ROBERT PAPE: There are roles present for assemblage presidents, rule enforcement and nationalist leaders, and actually, talking to rule enforcement present directly, in- folks who do this successful Chicago, rule enforcement is really overmuch much sophisticated, I think, than you mightiness spot from nan nationalist here. So that's why I deliberation it's truthful important to attraction connected nan solutions from nan position of our assemblage leaders, our nationalist leaders, because they are only episodically progressive pinch dealing pinch unit and governmental violence. And that's really why it's truthful important to attraction connected what our assemblage leaders should beryllium doing and our nationalist leaders, beyond simply crowd control.
MARGARET BRENNAN: It sounds for illustration you're saying, group person forgotten really to person a civilian speech astir a heated issue.
ROBERT PAPE: Well, they--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Isn't that what assemblage is expected to beryllium about?
ROBERT PAPE: They- they are, but no- October 7, caught each of america by surprise, and it caught universities by surprise. So we are simply- we person policies, we person policies of nan Kalven Report astatine nan University of Chicago. These were galore of nan field policies and our practices developed successful nan 1960s. And almost nary leader who's moving either our authorities aliases assemblage was progressive successful nan 1960s. And nan issues we're dealing pinch coming are new. They're not wholly new, but I would say, like, 90 degrees new, and that is what we person to travel to grips with. And not conscionable presume everything was good earlier truthful they will conscionable slice distant and they will beryllium good again.
MARGARET BRENNAN: There's a batch of attraction connected nan beingness protestation correct now. But going backmost to October, you had those 3 Palestinian boys changeable successful Burlington, Vermont. You had legislature hearings, grilling college, assemblage leaders for not reining successful connection utilized connected campus. I mean, this has been going connected for six months now. Does it extremity erstwhile nan schoolhouse twelvemonth ends?
ROBERT PAPE: I don't deliberation we tin count connected that for respective reasons. Number one, we person graduation play to get through. Number two, galore of our colleges now person summertime programs that are rather extensive. So for galore colleges and universities, things don't wholly travel to a halt during nan summer, but besides adjacent fall. Fall is all- not that acold away. And this could besides hap again, it could hap in- successful nan mediate of our predetermination play arsenic well. So location are many, galore reasons. The Chicago convention. There are galore reasons why we should return calming steps now. And again, not conscionable support assuming, oh, yeah, everything's fine. We conscionable request to get done nan adjacent time aliases two, aliases nan adjacent week aliases two, and past things will conscionable slice away. I deliberation that was an presumption by galore rather important and reliable leaders, that presumption now needs to beryllium pushed aside.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Professor, convey you for your insights. We'll beryllium backmost successful a moment.
